also could be titled the "Squeeky Wheel - No Grease" post.
Just before 9 Mile was the first time I ran the larger XR tires on the Niner and there were a few times during the race when I heard a strange sound from my bike. A rubbing, not quite right kind of sound. I checked the bike post race and saw that, not only is there bare metal showing on the left chain stay, but there is a groove/crease as well. The scandium had been worn and grooved because of the tire rubbing.
Time to put Team Over-Analysis to work. The Cycleworks crew, including at various times, Jerod, Tony T, Matt P, Z-Dogg, Rock D and of course, Jeff all pondered and looked at the bike with me. We were thorough and frankly, I was waiting to see what I had done to jack up my bike. Jerod double checked Niner's recommend spacing. I was good there. He then thought to check the frame alignment. It was off. Not by a ton, a few of mil., but enough to balance out the space I was suppose to have minus a bit more. Ah, there's the rub.
So, Jeff chats with Niner and finds out that clearance had been a challenge for them with their earlier batches of bikes (which mine came from), but that they have since then adjusted/corrected the clearance in subsequent batches. Jeff then offers to double-check the bike and send some photos. Everything comes out the same in the double-check. We also checked the dish of the wheel to see if it had contributed to the problem. It's a Mohawk hand-built, so I felt it was solid and, of course, it was. Jeff attaches the photos to an email and sends it across.
Their response was to say that the portion of the chainstay in question was very thick and "should not" break. They would cover the frame if it broke. They then went on to explain how some of the tires, like the ones I run weren't available when thier early frames where made. They explain how they adjusted and that later batches had more clearance. My other option from Niner is to exchange the frame for a price of $200. The do not explain why the frame is out of alignment.
My reaction? I don't think so.
There was no mention in their response about the frame being out of alignment. An acknowledgement would be nice.
Based on all of the information I had, I did everything according to Hoyle. Had I know I actually had less clearance, I wouldn't have run that tire. Had I put my head up my ass and ran a tire beyond what they say you can run, I would have accepted it and ate my mistake.
If I jack something up, it's on my tab. If you and I jack something up together, I'll split it with you. I'm not going to pay an extra $200 for a frame I should already have.
I'm sure as hell not going to buy a SIR anymore. Nor any other Niner frame for that matter. Full dismount.
Maybe I should have G-Ted add scandium to his current discussion. Will Scandium sudden give as the groove gets larger? Do I feel like chancing it? Nope. Do I feel like paying a $200 "insurance policy" to make sure I am not on a frame that will break. Fuck no.
I'm working to have some class about this, but I'm pissed and disappointed.
I'm ready for my IF to get here. I hear they make a 29er SS.
Thursday, August 31, 2006
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
16 comments:
Might not break? MIGHT NOT BREAK?!?! That is not what any ride wants to hear.
I say get on the phone with them and let them know the real deal. I have heard that they are real good with customer service.
If they know clearance is a problem, which they do since they changed it later, they should make it right for people that have problems.
Let us know how this turns out. I am looking at a couple of Niner frames for next year, but if they can't take care of current customers, maybe I need to look at another company?
Joe
Uggh! I hate crap like this. The Niner guys were so cool to me and they reiterated how customer service was at the top of their lists time and time again through out my dealings with them. They seemed like some straight up guys.
I'm hoping they come around for you, but it sounds as if they can't afford it, which I'd actually tell them.
Read into that what they may!
small builders can make mistakes and higher production builders can make mistakes.
i've cracked one custom frame and i've snapped one. both were fixed at no cost. shit breaks. its a drag.
aluminum is more likely to fail because of a groove then steel.
yeah, I'd have to say fuckem,
I think eating 200 bucks for a new perfect frame is a small cost of doing buisness.
word moves purdy fast around the interweb anymore.
they may want to get your blog address and see how fast bad news can travel around the midwest with a few people.
if they see enough people around saying fuckit, go with If. you might find yourself gettin a phone call, an apology, and a new frame with a call tag,
and if not.
giving a company bad press when they fuck up and don't stand behind it is fair play.
personaly,
I say fuckem,
go with the if and have it done with,
didn't cornbread get his new frame sent to him via a phone call complaint. now that is customer service.
not a "probably won't break"
This sux. Sounds like you need to talk to someone else at Niner.
Anyone can admit they made a mistake, but it takes a person of altruistic character to make it right. Hopefully, they'll come to this realization and save face.
IF started my new frame without even seeing the old one. They're awesome. I'd recommend them for your next bike.
I don't care what Corey says, he's kind of a douchebag, IF is great to work with and they build great bikes.
Bikes break, they are machines, teeth is hard.
I used to get a lot of shit when I started riding production bikes over custom. I did the Ibis, Fat, American, Manitou thing but eventually ended up on Specialsized and Fishers. Nobody wanted to believe that they rode well.
What I've found is that when you ride the livin' shit out of bikes they break, some sooner than others. The small custom guys struggle to pay the bills and put food on the table. The big guys not so much. T-Bone's Rig finally cracked at the seat cluster after two years. Shim's Supercal cracked at the BB shell after 3 years. Two frames showed up last week, no questions asked, no charge. Fisher stands behind the frames 110%. Fisher had rear tire clearence issues as well. They were more severe than alignment issues but that problem got fixed N/C as well.
I appreciate the craftsmanship of a custom bike as much as the next guy. But I wouldn't be paying an extra $200. Everything I've heard about IF has been positive. Go for it.
Bummer, the past two weeks have been shit all the way around.
I concur with the prevailing attitude here -- you don't "need" to be on a Niner brand bike that bad, and any company that doesn't warranty a frame that's 3mm out of alignment straight away deserves to get kicked to the curb -- especially when it's the cause of the problem you're having. That's just insane.
I had actually considered a Niner for my next singlespeed, but I just crossed their name off the list. They made the decision easy for me...
Good luck Skip!
MG
what a bunch of screw ups. they have already aquired at least 200 worth of bad press.
I wonder if the guys at niner have gotten privey to this on-line conversation.
someone should send them a link,
I think the bad press this is generating could be turned around purdy fast and some good kudos and good press could come outa it for them...
send skip a replacement frame, to fix the one that was wrong, and bad outa the factory, and generate some good press, good karma, and have a bunch of folks with there heads and fingers in the game and interblogging webosphere give good props to the boys at niner.
or screw skip, claim they can't afford a 200 dollar replacement frame, fix their previous mistake,
and have these same folks spread it around the interweb that the company is a joke,
take 200 bucks outa their pockets the otherway by not standing behind stuff they made in the past.
you get into the buisness of bikes, you better not have your head up your ass, cuz if you do, it'll come back to bite ya.. one way or the other,
planets too small nowadays...
good luck skip,
I had considered niner for the next ride as well.
how this is handled will deffinatly be a factor in what bikes are on the list, and what are not.
had a similer problem with electra when I worked at the shop, now I'd recomend roadmaster and huffy before I'd recomend an electra. bad companys that don't stand behind their mistakes suck.
I guess I'm minority and just clueless 'cause I don't see the problem.
exhibit A) Its not broken ... they've agreed to cover it if it does actually break. That seems to solve that potential problem if it actually comes to fruition. Any bike could break, on any ride, even without any noticable or apparent stress risers. Trusting that your frame will not break (custom or otherwise)is, understandably, a whole other issue.
exhibit B)They have no evidence that the mis-aligned frame came out the door of their factory in its current mis-aligned state. Were there any obvious issues when you built it up? For all they know you could've wrecked it on the first ride and that threw it out of alignment. They have to protect themselves ... not from guys like you obviously, but there are some sneaky sons-o-bitches out there with less scrupples.
I feel for ya, but kind of see boths sides of this one. No one wants to kick it on a bike they don't have faith in and can't run the tires they want on. At the same time, they want to make damn sure that it is totally their fault (not having a crystal ball that said "wider chainstays will accomodate the larger tires sizes of the future" isn't their fault) so I can see that side of it.
They should consider splitting the costs with you since they have acknowledged, and corrected, clearance issues. But with what I've read here, no one has me convinced that they should foot the entire bill to "make it right".
In the meantime - run a tire that has a little better clearance and keep an eye on it. It'll either eventually break or you'll forget about it. Unless the exposed metal just drives you nuts.
Just my initial two cents.
Well after reading Niners response on MTBR, Sounds like you post is a bunch of Bull#*it. After a year u notice the problem, WTF!?! And you didnt even talk to niner direct. Then Your buddy bashes them in a public forum with more misinformation.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2211135#poststop
Read Niners response b/f u belive this Crap!
PLEASE let me know you are aware your friend posted this on mtbr.com, and email me brosenbauer (at)yahoo.com if you want me to remove the post on mtbr.
whiner
Same thing happened with my two Dos frames. Had two different frames both with grooves in the inside of the chainstay. They said it was my fault and due to my "riding style." Same wheels and tires on another frame and no rub. We also measured both Dos frames to be about 2-3mm out of alignment. Yes please let me buy another one for a discounted price! If they can't get it right and won't stand behind their product F-em. There are plenty of other frames and builders with integrity.
Tim
Post a Comment